Tim Pawlenty South Carolina GOP Debate Transcript
I do congratulate President Obama for the fine job that he did in making the tough call and being decisive as it related to finding and killing Osama bin Laden. A good job. I tip my cap to him in that moment. That moment is no the sum total of America's foreign policy. He's made a number of other decisions relating to our security here and around the world that I don't agree with. If it turns out that of the techniques that he criticized during the campaign lead to bin Laden's being identified and killed, he should be asked to explain whether he does or doesn't support those techniques. To give you one example, in Libya, he made a decision to subordinate our decision-make together United Nations. I don't agree with that. If he says Gadhafi must go he needs to maintain the options to make Gadhafi go and he didn't do that.
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Chris: I want to follow up with you governor Pawlenty. You mentioned out in your first answer. We heard a different opinion from congressman Paul. There is a renewed debate about enhanced interrogation in the aftermath of the taking out of Osama Bin Laden. Two years ago, you would not endorse waterboarding of high value detainees. You said, I think clearly we have to weigh the benefits of the information against the damage it causes not only to the individual, but to our values, more broadly. Since then governor, have you decided where you stand on waterboarding?
Gov. Pawlenty: I believe my position hasn't changed. I've been all over the Middle East, I’ve been to Iraq five times. I've been to Afghanistan three times. I've been to many other countries in the Mideast, Turkey, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel and others. As to your previous point there is a group of individuals who are radical jihadists we need to call them by name. They believe it is okay to kill people in the name of their religion. It is not all of Islam. It is not all Muslims. But there is a subgroup who believe it is okay. In fact it is their plan and design to kill people. The first order of business of the United States federal government is to protect this country and the American people. The people and the mindset that killed 3,000 of our fellow citizens on September 11th, 2001 would have kill not 3,000, but 300,000 if they could have or three million or 30 million. We need to do everything we can to make sure that doesn't I support enhanced interrogation techniques under limited circumstances.
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Juan: Governor Pawlenty, despite 10 years of the Bush tax cuts the unemployment rate here in South Carolina was 9.6% in March. Do you have any ideas for stimulating the job market beyond continued tax cuts?
Pawlenty: I sure do, Juan. It is an important question. As I travel the country people are worried. I grew up in a meat-packing town not unlike Greenville here in South Carolina, that used to have textile mills. When at an early age those plants shutdown I saw the face of jobless and economic worry in my hometown and my own family. I've seen this. I've lived it. We have a situation where the best thing that we can to for our fellow citizens is do those things that are going to make it more likely that jobs are going to grow. In South Carolina I’ll give you a good example, you have this administration through the national labor relation board telling a private company they cannot relocate to South Carolina and provide jobs in this state. And they are good paying jobs and needed jobs. It is a preposterous decision and position of this administration. I want to make it clear. The idea that the federal government can tell a business where they can be is a new line this administration has crossed. It is outrageous.
Juan: We'll come back to that issue. It is a hot one here in South Carolina.
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Shannon Bream: Governor Pawlenty, we’ll start with you, you as every other participant here will notice, will notice that mitt Romney is not here. You have had plenty to say about Romney care including this quote: “Looking at the Massachusetts experience, it would not be the one I would want for the country to follow any further” A poll showed just weeks ago showed that 84% of Massachusetts’s residents are satisfied with the plan. Why isn't that good enough for you?
Pawlenty: Well, Governor Romney is not here to defend himself so I’m not going to pick on him or the position he took in Massachusetts. The answer to our health care problem is not to drag it into Washington, D.C. and create a top down government run centralized limited choice, limited option system. We took a different direction in my state of Minnesota. I governed there, the direction for health care reform is to empower individuals and families to make choices that are best for them. If they need financial help let's give it to them directly. This is an issue President Obama stood in Iowa, in 2008 on the night of the Iowa caucuses. He promised the nation that he would do health care reform, focused on cost containment. He opposed an individual mandate. And said he was going to do it with republicans. He broke that promise. He went to Washington, D.C. and jammed down our throats one of the most partisan, of the most misguided pieces of legislation in the country it is going to make health care worse, not better.
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Chris: Governor, you like to say in Minnesota you balanced the budget without raising taxes. The national conference of state legislatures say that you used a lot of one time fixes such as taking two billion from the Obama stimulus plan and borrowing billions from local school districts. The bottom line is you left your state after your term as governor, with a projected deficit of six billion dollars, sir.
Gov. Pawlenty: Chris, I was governor for the state of Minnesota for eight years. Over 4 two year budget cycles, every budget during my time as governor was balanced and the last one ends this coming summer June 30th and it will end up in the black. It is going to end up in the when they talk about this projected deficit coming up in the next two years after that it assumes a 25% or so increase in state spending. That's outrageous. If they live within their means there would be no deficit at all. By the way, the Democrats in Minnesota, wanted more spending. So, this idea that there's a deficit in Minnesota and I left it in Minnesota is not accurate. This two-year budget cycle ends in the black this summer. The two years after that is a projection, based on preposterous assumptions.
Chris: But if I may make a follow up and you have 30 seconds to answer, sir. One of the reasons that people talk about a projected deficit of six billion dollars is because of all the borrowing you took from local school districts. As a result the stay has to pay back the local schools, four billion dollars.
Gov. Pawlenty: Actually the deferral of those payments to schools was something I wanted to make permanent through an executive action, and asked the legislature to make them permanent, they refused, this is a matter of public record. They chose to do it one time. In this session, it looks like they are going to make them permanent.
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Shannon: Governor Pawlenty, just days ago a federal court struck down the ban on using federal funds for embryonic stem cell research. You identify yourself as strongly pro-life but don't oppose government funding research on existing stem cell lines already derived from embryos. Isn't that still spending taxpayer money on elements generated by at some point destroying an embryo?
Pawlenty: As to stem cell research it holds great promise and I support stem cell research. I think it should be adult derived. By theway, Shannon, most of the therapies and breakthroughs that we are seeing interms of treatment are coming from adult derived stem cell research. I strongly support that. As to embryonic stem cell research, I don't think we should pursue although President Bush when he was in office said he would allow and authorize the use of research on certain stem cell lines for which the embryo had already previously been destroyed before the issue came to his desk or came to his attention. I did support his approach for that limited window of stem cell research on those existing lines for which the embryo had already been destroyed.
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Juan: Now Pawlenty n a recent interview, you faulted president Obama for saying, U.S. policy is to depose Libyan dictator Gadhafi. But failing to send U.S. Special Forces to do the job. Wouldn't your policy result in either chaos or prolonged U.S. involvement?
Pawlenty: Well, Muammar Gadhafi is someone who has American blood on his hands, Juan. He killed Americans, as they flew, and others as they flew from Europe to the United States some years ago he kill Americans in adisco in Europe. Ronald Reagan tried to kill Gadhafi in the 80s. He missed him, not by much. President Reagan was right in that regard. I called for the establishment or at least the threat of the no-fly zone one of the first national voices to do so on March 7th, had the President been decisive in that moment. The rebels had taken over most of the country, they had the momentum, they had Gadhafi on the ropes. He was openly talking about leaving, voluntarily, according to news reports and we could have shoved him out, at that moment. Now what the president did is waited the better part of a machine for the Arab league to give him permission. He waited for the United Nations to pass a resolution. Then he made the mistake of saying, by the way, American policy is to make Gadhafi go. Now he has his hands tied by the United Nations, subordinated our decision-making options to that pathetic organization in many respects. I would never put the United States in that position. If the president says Gadhafi must go, he must go.
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Shannon: Governor Pawlenty, just days ago a federal court struck down the ban on using federal funds for embryonic stem cell research. You identify yourself as strongly pro-life but don't oppose government funding research on existing stem cell lines already derived from embryos. Isn't that still spending taxpayer money on elements generated by at some point destroying an embryo?
Gov. Pawlenty: As to stem cell research it holds great promise and I support stem cell research. I think it should be adult derived. By the way, Shannon, most of the therapies and breakthroughs that we are seeing in terms of treatment are coming from adult derived stem cell research. I strongly support that. As to embryonic stem cell research, I don't think we should pursue although President Bush when he was in office said he would allow and authorize the use of research on certain stem cell lines for which the embryo had already previously been destroyed before the issue came to his desk or came to his attention. I did support his approach for that limited window of stem cell research on those existing lines for which the embryo had already been destroyed.
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Juan: Governor Pawlenty, when you served as governor in Minnesota you named an education commissioner who equated the teaching of creationism with the teaching of evolution. Do you equate the teaching of creationism with the teaching of evolution, as the basis for what should be taught in our nation's schools? I ask that in the sense, do you personally equate a faith-based theory with scientific inquiry?
Gov Pawlenty: Juan, the approach we took in Minnesota is to say there should be room in the curriculum for study of intelligent design. Didn't need to be in science class. We didn't decide that at the state level. We left that up to the local districts and parents in that i think that's a reasonable and appropriate approach. If i might add something relating to your previous question. I grew up in a meat packing town, I was in a union for seven years. My family is a union family. My brothers and sisters many work in unions to this day or have worked in unions. I understand this issue. We are not against hardworking men and women. They need jobs. We are against government intervening in the market and with businesses to the point where they say we are not growing jobs any more because the government is discouraging us so much, making it so expensive, delaying it so often, we are out of the job market that's the wrong direction. It is not about bashing unions it is about being pro job. You can’t be pro job and anti business, it’s like being pro egg and anti chicken, it doesn’t work.
Juan: You didn't answer my question about what you believe about teaching creationism, in the schools. What do you believe?
Gov Pawlenty: I believe that should be left up to parents and local districts and not states or federal government.
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Chris: in January you told me that you signed a bill to promote renewable energy sources, but, and here’s the quote, we never did sign a bill relating to cap and trade in 2007 the bill you signed required a task force to recommend how the state could adopt cap and trade in 2008, you said I support a reasonable cap and trade system at the federal level. You made this ad for the Environmental Defense Action Fund. Let's watch.
“If we act now, we can create thousands of new jobs in clean energy industries, before our overseas competitors beat us to it. Cap greenhouse gas pollution, now.”
Chris: Governor, I told you it was going to be a problem for you down the line. You now say it was a dumb mistake. Weren't you far more committed to cap and trade over those years than you now let on?
Gov Pawlenty: What i said that day and many other times is this we did consider in signing the law in Minnesota that would study cap and trade. We didn't impose it. We signed up to review it, study, join with other states to look at it and we did. What i concluded subsequently is it is really a bad idea. Not in the last six months. I sent a letter congress I think about two years ago. And other times have said, I was wrong, I was a mistake and I’m sorry. It is ham fisted, it is going to be harmful to the economy. Everybody here and anybody else running for president, if you have -- or considering running for president, if you've got an executive position and you have been in the battle, you are going to have battle scars or clunkers in your record, we all do. And that’s one of mine. I just admit. I don't try to duck it, bob it, weave it, try to explain it away, I’m just telling you, I made a mistake. I look the American people in the eye and say i made a mistake. Nobody is perfect. If anybody is perfect come on up here and stand by this podium because we would like that person to be running for president.
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Gov. Pawlenty: Bret, we have $4 a gallon gas. This morning they announced $6 gas in Hawaii. We have crushing levels of unemployment. Almost unbearable for so many of our fellow Americans. A federal government that is out of control and spiraling towards financial insolvency. If you look at thosefacts and say president Obama is unbeatable, I say respectfully, those polls are wrong. We can't restore America’s promise unless we have a president who keeps his promises to America. He stood before the American people and saidhe's going to cut the deficit in half in his first term and he didn't keep that promise either.
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Chris: Governor Pawlenty you have been campaigning for months, especially in Iowa. Mike Huckabee is still considering whether to even run and he's already beating you badly in the polls, even in Iowa. Sir, if he gets in this race, are you out of business?
Pawlenty: I love the Huck. I know him, he's been a colleague and friend. I know Janet, his spouse. He's a wonderful man and he has a bigheart and a lot of talent and he cares about this country. I appreciate himvery much. But my views and his views may not always line-up. They mostly do. But no, I'm planning to be in it. If i decide to do this to win it in Iowa, NewHampshire, South Carolina and everywhere else. I'm still not very well known outside of Minnesota and as I get better known I get more and more support. I think momentum is on my side.